Talk:Vaila Mae (Shetland Museum Sixareen)

Shetlopedia - The Shetland Encyclopaedia that anyone can edit

Jump to: navigation, search

Contents

Archived Talk

The previous content of this page has been archived, to make space for more talk :-)
The archive page can be found by following THIS LINK

The Archived page is now protected so editing on that page is only permitted by Sysops.

To find specific topics from the archived page, these links may help:

Protecting Archived Page

I decided to protect that page so that people won't add to it, and will hopefully put all new talk here. The old page was getting too big to make any sense anyhow.
If you want to quote anything from that page, just copy and paste as a quote.
Hope that makes sense. I don't really understand this archiving thing yet, just trying to make the best I can of it, without losing anything we've talked about.
Cheers,
Robbie 14:19, 23 April 2008 (MDT)

Launching

Heimdal,
Do you think it would be possible to get a video of the launching ceremony?
And do you know yet what form the naming competition is likely to take?
Robbie 13:45, 15 May 2008 (MDT)

I'll see what I can do about a video, although I don't have a video camera, I'll ask around.
As to the naming competition, there are details on the Museum page here ...
http://www.shetland-museum.org.uk/project2/news.htm
I see they have added a link to Shetlopedia's Sixareen Building Project pages !!
Heimdal 13:44, 16 May 2008 (MDT)

Nice of them to add that link. It's a great photographic record.
I've downloaded the naming form, and will post my suggestion, but I'll bet that about 1000 others have thought of the same name, as there's only really one obvious choice. :-)
Afraid I can't think of anybody to help with video, but if I come up with anything I'll let you know.
Robbie 15:56, 16 May 2008 (MDT)

Rooms

Heimdal,
This sixareen would appear to have one room more than others I've seen pictures/details of. The mid room and ballast room were one, and the shot room was bigger, in the others.
Is this 7 room configuration more traditional, or did this depend possibly on the overall size of the boat; eg. maybe one less room in the smaller ones?
--Robbie 05:36, 18 May 2008 (MDT)

Just for info, this is the Sixareen Plan from the Unst Boat Haven. It's one of the ones I used when doing the boat parts page. The layout matches the model in the museum, and just has six rooms, with no ballast room.
Picture 380, from 2nd May, shows the Shot and Owse rooms, but not sure if that is right, because there would have to be fiskabrods between them to make owsin possible with a catch onboard.
Any ideas??
Robbie 09:02, 18 May 2008 (MDT)

I have been using pic 023, from 7 Feb for the names of the parts, and this seems to be the layout being followed by the builders. Perhaps this is another example of regional difference ? There are no fiskabrods between the shot and owse rooms in this example. The pump would not have been very efficient anyway. From discussions with various visitors to the boatshed, it would seem that the practice was to remove the tilfer in the owse room and get the water out with the auskerri (wooden shovel). Also, when one of the crew had his turn to sleep, the tilfer was removed to allow as low a position in the boat as possible.
Another point on 'crew comfort' mentioned several times was how sometimes if the boat had been caught in a gale and they were running for home, that by the time they got home (if they got home) their arms shoulders and chests were red raw and bleeding from the friction of their soaking clothes as they continually had to get the sail back up again after it had been lowered in flans. A tough breed !
Forgot to sign that :-( Heimdal 11:41, 18 May 2008 (MDT)

Still not sure about the drawing in Pic 023 being right. My point about no fiskabrods between Owsin and Shot rooms is that when there is fish onboard, it would be impossible to lift Tilfer to owse. Everything else I've read/seen about this, points to the Owse room being kept clear, for owsin with Owsekerri. Also the area called Shot room in drawing Pic 023, isn't big enough. And all references I've found point to the Mid Room being used for ballast. It's a bit confusing.
Robbie 13:20, 18 May 2008 (MDT)

I've looked into this a bit more. Even the Museum webpage here agrees with my suspicions that the plan in Pic 023 is named wrong. The Mid Room and Ballast Room are one and the same, which makes sense purely from a balance point of view. The Shot Room is the area both sides of the Skaer Baand, eg. the area shown in pic 380. It would be nice to know what Jack and Robbie think about this.
Robbie 15:17, 18 May 2008 (MDT)

BUMP!!!
Still looking for some feedback on this.
Robbie 01:25, 24 May 2008 (MDT)

Assuming this model is accurate, or more accurate than the line drawings, it may explain a bit more. We know that beach stones were used for ballast and discarded as fish came aboard. When sailing out or in, the ballast would have to be on the weather side to counteract heel, so the fore and aft divisions shown in the model, in the ballast room (on both sides) and the shot room (centrally)would have come into play. On the return trip the fish would have been placed on the weather side and this would allow the water to run to the lee side from where it could have been owsed. This is something which was spoken about with some of the visitors to the boatshed when discussing the haaf fishing, but I had forgotten about since, only remembered again when I looked at the model !!
Heimdal 10:04, 24 May 2008 (MDT)

Is there any evidence surviving for stowing catch or ballast to weather? I for one do not believe it for several reasons. I have re read March, Sandison and Osler, March and Sandison set out records of boat and sail handling but neither mention stowing weight to windward, nor shifting weight when coming about. There are three reasons for doubting the practice. Firstly, it is extremely dangerous, as where the sail to be caught aback, the boat would be over quicker than you could say Jack Robinson in old norse. Secondly I doubt that there would be time to shift ballast when coming about. The skipper would be aft on the tiller, two would man the halyard, one or two would be rowing her head through the wind, and one would be shifting the tack line from one side to the other. If there was any one left to do it he would have been hard pressed to shift half a boat load of fish, or the ballast cobbles from one side to the other. Thirdly humping beach cobbles from one side to the other would have risked splitting the planking. My belief is that the ballast would have been stowed in the side lockers to keep the tilfers clear for the crew to move about, and for their feet if rowing. A parting board in the fish room would have stopped the catch from sliding until sufficient was taken to fill the fishroom. The references do talk of the fishroom being filled to the gunwales and "tiled " over with flatfish so that a good skipper could take a breaking wave on the fish, allowing most of the water to run right off the leeward side. Peeriemaa 12:50, 26 May 2008 (MDT)

Thanks Heimdal. That model is the one I used for pictures in some of the boat parts entries. And it would seem to agree with the drawings from Unst and the Museum pages, which just about confirms my idea that the drawing on picture Six023 has the rooms named wrong.
I'd never actually noticed the fore and aft divisions in the ballast room before, but I know that early racing maids used similar boards to hold the shifting ballast.
The ballast stones which were dumped, I'd heard of before which I mentioned in the Haaf Fishing page.
I'm fairly certain that the division in the shot room was also important for just stopping all the catch moving to one side, as given the amount of fish recorded in various texts I've read, there would have been more than enough to fill the entire shot room with a reasonably good catch.
This central division would also negate the chances of lifting the tilfer to owse, although owsin from one half of the shot would have been possible if the boat was heeled well to lee. This also sort of confirms the reason why the owsin room, as described in all texts I've read, was a completely clear room. I did also read somewhere that the owsin room tilfer was never fitted in some boats :-)
Re. ballast. I wonder how much ballast they carried when leaving for a trip? I know that early sailing Shetland models carried over 1 ton, so they tried to avoid capsizing as much as the modern maids ;-)
Robbie 11:01, 24 May 2008 (MDT)

Re. Peeriemaa.
I've never read any reference to 'shifting ballast' in a Sixareen, and I think I've read most of what's been printed about Sixareens, and a lot that hasn't come to print. But I don't have much knowledge of sailing boats, and as I tend not to trust books, I'm entirely open to suggestion on this matter. My personal belief would be that the ballast was in the ballast room, never in the shot room. Whether it was stowed to the sides, to leave the footwell clear, is a possibility which makes sense. Given the quantity of fish, which records indicate, I would be inclined to agree with the 'full shot room' scenario.
Really all I'm trying to get to here is: Which layout of the rooms do we accept. I'm afraid I can't believe the layout suggested by the drawing in picture number 023, as it flies in the face of all drawings and descriptions I've seen elsewhere.
I don't want to argue with the fact that this may be the layout on which the new sixareen is being built, but because it is so different from all other records, and everything I've heard about sixareens, I'm really confused.
I'd like to suggest that, interpretation aside, we should stick with the layout as described in the drawings at both the Unst Boat Haven and The Museum. It would mean altering a few descriptions on the pictures, but I think it would be more accurate.
BTW. I've also heard about the flatfish for running off a wave. Then they were used to haul the boat over on the beach.. What a waste of good skate ;-) :-)))
Robbie 13:51, 26 May 2008 (MDT)

I had another look at 'Far Haaf' this week, and noticed that there were fore and aft dividers fitted on both sides in the ballast room, no sign of anything aft though. Unfortunately there was no one available to answer questions, but she is quite different to the 'new build'. Her beatin baands do not extend to the gunwales, only being fitted to the lower boards; her tack baands extend over just four boards ; she has covering boards fitted on top of the gunwales ; no rouths, just copper plates nailed on the covering boards ;stammerins and baands are pretty massive. Both boats are sixareens, no doubt about that, but I think the differences show that there are no hard and fast rules about these craft. Boats would have been built to suit local conditions/preferences and to the spec that the skipper/owner requested and bearing in mind that these boats had a fishing life of approx 5 to 7 years, a 'new order' would have specified features which the skipper wished retained/altered.
Remembering that Jack and Robbie learned their craft with Boatie Jeemie, I am of the opinion that they have built a 'Smithy boat'.
Heimdal 17:02, 30 May 2008 (MDT)

Forrard Kabes, and Taft

Heimdal,
Just noticed your reference to the forrard kabes being for maneovering only. Which reminded me of hearing the forrard taft referred to as the "steer taft". Have you ever heard this expression?
Cheers
Robbie 14:15, 17 June 2008 (MDT)

Never heard that expression, but I can understand it. My thoughts on the forward position are that only one of the kabes would have been used to row. The other forward kabe held the 'hailin kabe'. The action of the men hailing the line would have given the boat forward motion and the one oar rowing would have held her head up to keep the boat 'in line' with the line. Obviously if the wind and waves blew her head off it would have been impossible to get the line back as they would be trying to pull the boat by the broadside. Make sense ? or have I not explained my thinking too well ?
Heimdal 16:18, 17 June 2008 (MDT)

That makes perfect sense to me. A bit like an ancient 'bow thruster' ;-) I can remember doing the same, rowing on one oar to stay with a line when hailing, and it always worked best from the fore taft.
Robbie 11:22, 18 June 2008 (MDT)

Launching Ceremony

Heimdal,
Any idea what time the launch is planned for on Saturday?
Robbie 11:27, 18 June 2008 (MDT)

Invitation says 11.30 am for 12.00 launch.
Heimdal 12:33, 18 June 2008 (MDT)

Uploaded a pic of an invitation. They were sent out by post with the stamp and name and address on the back of the wooden block ;-)))
Heimdal 12:47, 18 June 2008 (MDT)

Hate to use this word, but that invitation was "COOL" ;-)
Wish I had one (Jealous) :-))
A little plan I have for after the naming of the sixareen, is to move the "Sixareen Building Project" to the name which she is given, in the format ?NAME? (Shetland Museum Sixareen). Of course all existing pages would automatically be redirected, so it wouldn't affect anybody that has it stored as a favourite... Does that sound OK?
Robbie 13:38, 19 June 2008 (MDT)

Yes, sounds fine to me. I gather the format of the ceremony is that after the sixareen is named, Jack and Robbie will screw on the nameboards and she will then be launched. Experienced yoal rowers, four men and two lasses, have been recruited and will be the first crew to take her out into the harbour. Fair Isle ganseys are the order of the day (let's hope it's dry !!)
Heimdal 14:27, 19 June 2008 (MDT)

It's a pity that the Museum couldn't manage to turn their webcam here so that folk could see the launch on-line.
Robbie 03:30, 21 June 2008 (MDT)

Sixareen is 'Vaila Mae' and Haddock Boat is 'Laura Kay'. Lots of pics to download but will get them up asap
Heimdal 06:56, 21 June 2008 (MDT)

Excellent pics, as usual.
I've moved a load to another gallery, so that the page loads a bit faster, and I think that I'll create Gallery 9 later so that the main page is just the pictures from today, plus I'm still hoping for a video.
Was it both those girls who came up with the name?
And re. the Laura Kay, is she a half size replica? I know it was mentioned before, but I can't find the talk. BTW, if the Laura Kay suddenly disappears, I would be the prime suspect.. She is an absolute beauty. :-)))))

Re 'Laura Kay', she is a haddock boat as used in the inshore winter haddock fishing. Sixareens in summer for offshore and the smaller 'haddock boats' inshore in winter. Not to be confused with the 'Decked Haddock Boats' which came later.
Heimdal 16:18, 21 June 2008 (MDT)


I believe that the name 'Vaila Mae' is in memory of Vaila Mae Harvey, a young girl from Exnaboe who tragically died recently from cancer. Can anybody confirm this, as I think it is fitting to mention this on our page in her memory.
Robbie 15:18, 21 June 2008 (MDT)

Yes, that is correct. I could not take notes at the time to get it absolutely right, but the girls did say that in their speeches. Also Miriam is the Young Fiddler of the Year.
Heimdal 16:12, 21 June 2008 (MDT)

Thanks Heimdal.

At this point in the project I feel it is only fair to give full credit to our intrepid photographer Heimdal for the many days he has spent with his camera in the Museum boat shed.
Given the opportunity, I would have done the same. So, yes, I am jealous of the fact that he was there and I wasn't. :-)
It's a fantastic record of an amazing project which has kept me, and hundreds of other Shetlopedia viewers, delighted for several months.
Weel done ta dee Heimdal. :-)
Robbie 15:55, 21 June 2008 (MDT)

Thank you from me too !! I love wooden boats, you know, and see one like this beeing built ...WOW....I'm looking forward to see it one time ;-).

Robbie has been like a boy waiting for his christmas present today....The museum web-camera nearly drowe him insane...imagine : Sitting here looking at a lot of people watching something that we wanted to see...and it was just out of the picture ;-(.
Again THANK YOU, and Cheers--Oddrun 16:06, 21 June 2008 (MDT)


A good job, well done, Heimdal. It took a good camera, an even better camera eye, and limitless patience to create and put together an album of this quality. A unique record, and an equally unique experience, unlikely to ever be repeated. Thankyou for me too.
Ghostrider 16:59, 21 June 2008 (MDT)

Yep, highly, highly commendable.
EM 17:14, 21 June 2008 (MDT)

Bravo! A beautiful record of a rare jewel, Heimdal! Morula 18:20, 21 June 2008 (MDT)

Onywye, Heindal. Stop blushing noo, an tell wis whit dee neest pictir project will be :-) :-)
We canna live athoot a guid pictir fix, so Loard bliss dee an fin upö anidder subject.
I suppose dat it wid be oot o order ta aks dee ta geeng ta da kingdom o Forvik wi dee camera.. ;-)
Robbie 18:40, 21 June 2008 (MDT)

A peerie pictir a Stuart da Stewart 'o Forvik and his kingdom would be just the thing the page.. ;-)) Da dae is mebbe no been sae very ill, bit da last twa I ken I'd no wantit ta be tryin ta laund onywye facin da wast athin onythin less is a helicopter wi da wind and wattir hit wis layin on. I doot a nairoo mooth laek da soond a Papa widda been turnin brawly bumly tuh.
Ghostrider 18:56, 21 June 2008 (MDT)

Thanks for all the kind words, folks. I really enjoyed watching the sixareen 'growing' and seeing Jack and Robbie's woodworking skills. It will be quite difficult to find another equally interesting project. I have some pics too of Malcolm's boat, so they could be the basis of another boatbuilding page.
Heimdal 13:08, 22 June 2008 (MDT)

Interestingly enough Heimdal. While I was checking searches on Google today, I noticed that there had been people searching for "Laura Kay". I think it would be great to make a page for her, and I don't think I'm the only one that would love to see the pictures. :-)
Robbie 13:49, 22 June 2008 (MDT)

Flat Pack....

Look like the above mentioned talk is likely to come back to life.
Info could be forthcoming from reliable sources which should prove that the Shetland 'ratchives' may not be correct.
Robbie 18:57, 12 July 2008 (MDT)

This is a bit of a tease! Sounds interesting, what is the info, or at least the gist of it?
EM 05:38, 13 July 2008 (MDT)
Dont's know if this will help
"The main areas of Norway from which boats were exported were Os, Tysnes, Fusa, Strandvik and Samnanger. Tysnes specialised in building boats for export to Shetland and according to a manuscript dated 12 June 1714 in the Royal Library, Copenhagen, the boats being exported from Godoysund in Tysnes were 'only clinked together with a few nails and before being taken on board the ship they were numbered and marked and then taken apart again and when the ships arrive at their place of destination, they are discharged and put together again in accordance with the before mentioned numbers and marks - thus a small ship's hold can carry 70, 80, 100 even 120 boats'." from Alex Fenton's The Northern Isles, p 554.
Rula Morula 10:10, 14 July 2008 (MDT)

Almost same information, but coming from Norwegian source, as there is no proof on this side of the North Sea of the flat pack method ever having been used, although it is a widely known fact.
Many thanks Morula for digging out that article.
Robbie 10:49, 14 July 2008 (MDT)

A good source to read on this subject is Atle Thowsen, 'The Norwegian Export of Boats to Shetland, and its Influence upon Shetland Boatbuilding and Usage', Sjofartshistorisk Årbok, 1969. Brian 02:04, 15 July 2008 (MDT)

We'll dig that out, if it's not in the house already, although it's too recent to be reliable.
Robbie 18:06, 15 July 2008 (MDT)

Too recent to be reliable!! it's a work by an important historian using original sources! Brian 23:57, 15 July 2008 (MDT)

Sorry if my statement was taken wrong, but what I meant was that a document from the period when the trade was actually taking place will be a much better source than a recent author who may have accidentally transcribed something inaccurately. Most likely that book has images of documents from the period, in which case it will be reliable.
Robbie 02:22, 16 July 2008 (MDT)

Just as Sandy Fenton's para of 1978 on the subject, cited by Morula above, is a valuable source, so is Thowsen's article. In fact it is the best thing that has been written on the subject to date. Brian 03:15, 16 July 2008 (MDT)

In fact, now that I come to look at Fenton, it is Thowsen's article that he was quoting from!! Thowsen's paper is 50 pages long, and essential if you are interested in this subject. Brian 09:22, 16 July 2008 (MDT)

Excellent info. So, despite the doubts of people today, it looks quite clear that the boats really were pre-assembled. Fascinating.
EM 13:32, 16 July 2008 (MDT)

It wasn't just boats that were dealt with in this way: houses were as well. See the article 'Stock stove houses' in the Shetland Folk Book for 1980. Brian 02:37, 17 July 2008 (MDT)

Of course, perhaps the best example would be the St Magnus Bay Hotel. First re-assembled for an exhibition in Glasgow, then re-assembled again at it's present site.
Robbie 03:59, 17 July 2008 (MDT)

I think this story about the Hillswick Hotel is a myth. It was designed and built by Lerwick architect JM Aitken. See the Shetland Times and Shetland News for 28 July 1900, where there is no reference to its being imported in kit form. Brian 04:33, 17 July 2008 (MDT)

Interesting: Well have to change the info on the hotel page, Lord knows where that came from.
I wonder if Aitken had visited Norway for his inspiration, as it is almost an exact replica of many of the hotels in this area of Norway, although most of the ones here are 1 storey higher.
Robbie 04:40, 17 July 2008 (MDT)

This may have been where the info came from: [1]. Their info must be iffy, as they state 1902, and that is impossible if the papers were reporting it in 1900.
Robbie 04:53, 17 July 2008 (MDT)

Just having a little chuckle to myself here.. Never really looked at this page properly before, but nice to see that the Shetland Museum and Archives also agree that Flat Pack boats were a fact. The info really needs to be re-instated on some of the pages where it was deleted maliciously.
Robbie 11:19, 3 August 2008 (MDT)

I ran across this in doing some reading tonight, it didn't mention how big the haaf boats were, but talked about the 4 men boats fishing for saithe off Sumburgh. From An Account of The New Method of Fishing Practised On The Coasts of Shetland by James Fea (1775):
"At the most convenient, as well as customary places of landing, are Booths built, where they throw their fish, and where the Boat men are supplied with necessaries for the undertaking. Here they bring, commonly, if not always, from Gieue-Sound in Norway, Boats of different sizes. From this market, they are brought in boards, with their In timbers properly marked, so that on their arrival, there is nothing to be done, but to put them up by the Carpenter; and they are then sold at fixed prices, according to their size."
..."Of late, years, they are obliged, as it were, to go to a greater distance (- to the Haaf - rula). Many of the Country Gentlemen, as well as of the Strangers who fish off their Coasts, have Sloops of 50 or 60 Tuns, which commonly take in Tow, or in Charge, sometimes for every third fish, four of these boats. By these Sloops, the boats are towed to the distance of 15 Leagues from Land, arriving at the fishing ground about Sunset." Morula 22:19, 29 August 2008 (MDT)

Book reference

Paraphrased a bit from James R. Nicolson's 'Hay & Co, Merchants in Shetland' published by Hay & Co in 1982, no ISBN ref.
In 1844, the company's storeman Gavin Colvin was sent on the schooner Delight to Bergen to chose a cargo from Alex Greig & Sons who were Hay's main suppliers of various wooden items including open fishing boats of the sixern type, their parts shaped, assembled, then taken apart for reassembly in Shetland.
In August of 1847 Capt Ollason was sent to Bergen for a cargo of haaf boats from 19 to 20 feet in the keel. His instructions were to fill the hold with crooks of fir and oak for building boats "from the size of whillies to herring boats". He was also told to take a deck cargo of "upset" boats, 10, 11, and 12 feet keel with carpenter James Arcus having also been sent and told to remove the timbers from the upset boats after carefully numbering them so that the boats could stand one inside the other as compact as possible.
In 1853 another cargo of boats was ordered from Alex Greig and also an order for fir crooks was placed " as so many parties here will not use the Norway boats but think they can build them cheaper themselves".
In 1846, Burra Isle carpenter Charles Inkster was sent to Hamburg in Catherine to pick a selection of oak timbers for boats, spars for masts, bowsprits, booms, top masts and jib booms.

When writing this book, Jim had access to all Hay's old records, including ship's log books, so I have no doubt about the accuracy.
Heimdal 16:16, 5 October 2008 (MDT)

Thanks for that Heimdal. That matches up with other info I've found
I've started a re-write of the Sixareen page, but it's going to take a while.
Re. Crooks of Fir. Would this be what they were meaning?
Robbie 14:11, 6 October 2008 (MDT)

New Videos

Thanks to Leslie for adding those links, and for the excellent quality video. Just proves that decent quality is possible on YouTube ;-)
A couple of things caught my eye about those videos.
In the first one, somebody is seen committing the sin of pushing off from the pier with the blade of the oar... Tut Tut!!! Dad would have shot me if I didn't turn the oar and use the handle against the shore. :-) Anybody know if there was a general taboo about pushing the blade against anything other than water?
The second video was notable for a couple of things. Firstly, the sharpness of the chisels being used, (wish I could get one as sharp as that); and Secondly, Jack and Robbie are now film stars.... I think they both deserve an Oscar for their 'production'. :-)
Robbie 09:44, 28 August 2008 (MDT)

Concerning oar-etiquette I think this is one of those "work clothes versus Sunday best" situations. Different oars are used for different purposes. The "best" oars being more slender and fragile should not be allowed to have their blades contact beaches, piers etc. For everyday situations pragmatism favours chunkier oars in order to simplify everything. Fedder had various grades of oar but we almost invariably used the workhorse ones, and used the blades for pushing off if appropriate. These, unlike many fine country specimens, were also typically metal bound at their extremities to avoid blade splitting.
EM 18:33, 28 August 2008 (MDT)
Retrieved from "http://shetlopedia.com/Talk:Vaila_Mae_%28Shetland_Museum_Sixareen%29"
Personal tools
Shetlopedia Projects